Romans 8:17

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God*, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Ok, so we understand (Galatians 3:28 [KJV]) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Paul has made this clear, but for another reference;

(Romans 2:28-29 [KJV]) [28] For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: [29] But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

We understand we are all in the same covenant, but what is this “ if so be that we suffer with him”?

(Romans 8:18 [KJV]) For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

We have listeners in many countries other than the United States. We’ve not had listeners on the Antarctic continent but we have hit the other 6. I say that, not in pride, but to be able to say this; believers in the United States for the most part have no idea what it means to suffer for the sake of the gospel. Suffering for the gospel is a well worn bible topic, but it’s foreign to us.

I’ve had things done to me in the past, recently I came home from a church conference to discover someone had evidently thrown a rock through the rear window of my car. I’m not a hundred percent sure their reasoning behind this, but truthfully, it was an inconvenience. No one was threatening my life for the sake of the gospel.

Paul’s record is quite impressive;

(II Corinthians 11:23-27 [KJV]) [23] Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. [24] Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. [25] Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; [26] In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; [27] In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.

Paul knew something about suffering, and for the time of his writing the epistle of Romans, 57 or 58, the church in general expected suffering!

(Philippians 3:10 [KJV]) That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

(Romans 8:19-22 [KJV]) [19] For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. [20] For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, [21] Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. [22] For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

We find in Genesis and also (I Corinthians 15:21-26 [KJV]) [21] For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. [22] For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. [23] But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. [24] Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. [25] For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. [26] The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

Everything God created in Genesis 1 it was said to be good, it took sin to introduce death to this planet. Decay was not the natural state of things, but was brought in by sin.

(Revelation of John 22:3 [KJV]) And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him

The curse is done away with when the Kingdom of God has been brought fully in on this planet.

(Romans 8:23-25 [KJV]) [23] And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. [24] For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? [25] But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

(Hebrews 11:1-3 [KJV]) [1] Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. [2] For by it the elders obtained a good report. [3] Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

(Romans 8:26-27 [KJV]) [26] Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. [27] And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

That is why we are instructed in Jude to;

(Jude 1:20-21 [KJV]) [20] But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, [21] Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

(Romans 8:28 [KJV]) And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

I’m sure this is anecdotal, but the story goes a pastor asked one of his deacons that was an old farmer to say the closing prayer for service, and he said;

”Lord, I hate buttermilk.”
The pastor opened one eye and wondered where this was going. The deacon continued, “Lord, I hate lard.” Now the pastor was totally perplexed. The deacon continued, “Lord, I ain’t too crazy about plain flour. But after you mix ’em all together and bake ’em in a hot oven, I just love biscuits.”

We are made a promise; (Philippians 1:6 [KJV]) Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

All things working together is difficult to understand on this side of eternity, but I have no doubt it’s true. I have had things that have happened to me personally that made absolutely no sense at the time, but looking back I can see if certain people had remained in my life I would not be in the place where I am now.

(Romans 8:29-30 [KJV]) [29] For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. [30] Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

I suppose if I delve into the subject of what we see as predestination some will be upset, and if we don’t get into it others will be upset. There are some topics in the bible that you know some folks will get upset at the mere mention of them.

All I’m going to say is this; (Genesis 25:21-23 [KJV]) [21] And Isaac intreated the LORD for his wife, because she was barren: and the LORD was intreated of him, and Rebekah his wife conceived. [22] And the children struggled together within her; and she said, If it be so, why am I thus? And she went to enquire of the LORD. [23] And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

God knew. (Isaiah 46:9-10 [KJV]) [9] Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, [10] Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

We can argue over wether God chose Jacob to be stronger than Esau, or wether God just knew what would happen and declared it. Truthfully it has no bearing on our salvation and our time would be better spent on arguing over the correct pronunciation of the pecan nut! Is it pecan or pecaun?

(Romans 8:31-33 [KJV]) [31] What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? [32] He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? [33] Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.

David said;

(Psalms 118:6 [KJV]) The LORD is on my side; I will not fear: what can man do unto me?

(Romans 8:34-39 [KJV]) [34] Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. [35] Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? [36] As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. [37] Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. [38] For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, [39] Nor height, nor depth**(next page note), nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Neither height nor depth;

(Philippians 4:10-13 [KJV]) [10] But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again; wherein ye were also careful, but ye lacked opportunity. [11] Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content. [12] I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. [13] I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

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(Colossians 2:9 [KJV]) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily

Romans Episode 18

Romans 8:17